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Welcome to the Horde, Part III

January 16, 2014

To begin this third installment, I feel it is necessary to take a step back and clarify—or re-clarify—some important issues. Based on the commentary here, at WRSA, and a couple of other places online, there seems to be a common misunderstanding of why I chose to write these articles, as well as an understanding of what my stance is on tribalism.

So, before I go any further, some clarifications, in order to ensure better understanding.

1) I am not advocating a return to tribalism. I don’t need to, because I believe it will be largely unavoidable. In every single society in history that has suffered a collapse of a central governing authority, we have seen a return to the natural human state of tribalism. It’s sometimes hard for people to understand or remember in an era of instant messaging and social networking media, but it is unnatural for a human being to have close, psychologically intimate contact with too many people. I’ve read some authorities who argue the number ranging anywhere from 25-100 at most.

My discussion of tribes and tribalism is not about advocacy. It’s about dealing with the realities of what is coming. The fact is, as a reader pointed out in a forum discussion of this article, “Life in a tribal-based survival mode is MUCH different from the way we live now. Trying to live by modern concepts of justice, compassion, etc, in a breakdown of society will get you and yours killed—period, end of story.” Just as I’ve spent more than two years beating on the misconceptions of what “survivalist” guerrilla warfare is and is not, I’m beating on the survivalist concept of what tribalism is and is not.

2) The question can be raised, as a knuckle-dragger, am I really qualified to discuss this subject matter? From a reader, “I think this guy is trying to feel his way around a topic that really could be very important in a post-collapse world….I don’t think he reads and translates the Sagas for himself, nor is he married to someone who does (and has a PhD in the subject)…” She’s absolutely correct. No one at the JFK Special Warfare School offered me the option of learning Icelandic, and my history degrees focused on a completely different era of history. There are—undoubtedly–people FAR more qualified to discuss this topic in this context. Unfortunately, I don’t know who they are, or why they are not writing on the subject (If someone with a post-graduate degree in Anthro and/or sociology is willing to write an article on tribalism for the blog, I will post it, gladly!). Ultimately, this blog is nothing more than my thoughts on the relevant subjects, based on my (in this particular case) limited education, combined with more than a little bit of real-world experience (including in the realm of dealing with tribal societies specifically). Are my conclusions correct? Who the fuck knows? Do I believe they are valid, based on my experiences? Absolutely, or I wouldn’t waste my time posting them (For the record, when she reads this, as I hope she will, I would LOVE it if the commenter that I’m quoting, married to the PhD, would contact me via email. The depth of knowledge she displayed in her other posts is a resource I’d be delighted to mine for non-blog related study.)

So, with those two factors in mind….

A lot of people have made some really poignant comments about these articles. I’d like to take a break from the intended flow of further articles in this series and address some of them. I’m not going to address the specific sites where the comments were made, nor am I going to cite the pseudonyms of the commenters, for the sake of simplicity.

On Oaths and Oath Swearing

I made the comment in the previous article that I though swearing an oath of loyalty to your modern “tribe” was fucking gay.

except I will say that anyone who has ever actually been to a REAL Oath Ring Ceremony where people are taking it seriously would be hard pressed to find anything ****ing gay about it, unless of course it is a hand-fasting or wedding between a same sex-couple; even then the power of the binding ritual isn’t “gay” it is sheer serious intent when done correctly. People are reminded that what they swear is holy, important and should never be taken lightly; it isn’t the candles (or bon fire) that make it powerful, it is the serious intent.

My intent was not to belittle anyone’s beliefs. That’s genuinely not my thing. I’m morally certain that the commenter is correct. I know that when I swore my oath of enlistment—both times—I was as serious as a fucking JDAM dropping on your head. Same-same when I spoke my vows to my wife. (Here’s where I offend something like 95% of the readership….). There is a lot that I admire in the faith of the old gods. Unfortunately, modern Odinism/Theodism/Asatru/Whatever label you like, is seriously compromised by a couple of factors. Number one—and most obvious—is the popular (albeit incorrect) conception that it is somehow related to Wicca. I’ve spent quite a little bit of time over the last several weeks reading different authors, blogs, and forums related to Odinism. What I’ve seen is two things: a bunch of people who bear a close resemblance to most “preppers” in that they look like a bunch of out-of-shape suburban soccer mom/dad types, whose idea of a fight is a slumber party pillow fight. I have a little bit of trouble with taking them serious when they make an oath to “defend the faith” of the old gods. Seriously? If Odin or Tyr DOES exist (I don’t know, personally, and I’m not betting either way), I can’t imagine either of them looking at soft-ass modern Americans, or Europeans for that matter, and being anything but offended by these “followers.”

The other is the hijack of an otherwise noble belief system by a bunch of ignorant-fuck racist skinheads whose concept of ethnography is limited to skin color. If your idea of Odinism is that you must be “white,” then I ask…are you Teutonic, Celtic, Hellenic, or some other shade of “white?” 100%? Are you sure?

So again, I misspoke when I said that oath taking is “fucking gay,” and I apologize. I take my oaths extremely serious, and I shouldn’t assume that others don’t, regardless of how silly I think the rituals they choose to solemnize those oaths are.

Thingvellir/Althing, and Things….

(For the record, the “TH” above is a piss poor translation of an Icelandic letter that I don’t know how to make appear on my computer….sorry…)

...except it isn’t quite as stark as he makes out; one of the things clans do, especially when stuck on an island like Iceland, is provide a FORM of civil government….

I’m pretty sure the commenter and myself agree on this, I just hadn’t gotten this far in the conversation yet.

For the unschooled, Thingvellir is the place in Iceland where the first Althing was held around 930AD. The Althing, of course, is the national parliament of Iceland. The Althing was derived from the Scandinavian Thing, which was simply a legislative and judicial council (a parliament) of the collected tribe, used to adjudicate disagreements. As such, it was a critical factor in reducing the bloodshed of revenge killings.

It’s an ancient thing in Germanic/Teutonic culture. We know it was old when Tacitus discussed it in Germania, but there’s really no way to know exactly how far back in antiquity it first started happening. Inherent to the Thing is the concept, mentioned by a commenter on the blog in passing, of Wergild, or “man price.” This is the price established as the monetary value of a human being, and it varied depending on the social stature of the individual (for the record, this is not JUST a pagan/heathen concept. It continued well into the Christian era in Europe, and can be seen as the antecedent of “damages” awarded in modern American jurisprudence, I believe.

This is critical.

The idea of blood-feuds and revenge killings must be considered when discussing a reversion to tribalism, but…if all you do is revert to tribalism and start engaging in blood feuds, eventually extinction occurs. So, you establish….a government…Go figure. This, ultimately, was/is the point of this entire article series, the commenter just fucked me by bringing it up before I got there…Now I have to start a new article series….

Other Comments and Some Considerations

Tribalism is what keeps Islam together. They kill their brothers and sisters who get out of line to keep that authority going.

While Islam came out of a tribal culture, and there are certainly tribal cultures that are tribal, Islam as a universalist faith, seeks to include EVERYONE in the world within the confines of the faith. By definition then, it is NOT tribal. Wrong, fucked up, and bass-ackwards, yes. Tribal, no more so than Christianity.

Think about this before you get your panties in a twist…Judaism IS a tribal faith. By definition, Jews are Jewish…the Chosen People. Christianity is derived from Judaism. Christianity—like Islam—however is NOT a tribal faith. It is a universalist faith in that it hopes to unite all of mankind under the banners of Christ. Islam hopes to unite all of mankind under the banners of Allah.

If Islam is tribal, then so is Christianity…which it’s not.

‘the good of the clan and the tribe come first… And in that one phrase is encapsulated everything I oppose. This is pure poison.

Ah, individualism at it’s most retarded. John Donne of course said, “No man is an island.” The fact is, NO ONE can ever hope to accomplish a damned thing all by his lonesome. In a tribal society, the tribe does come first, because the good of the tribe ensures the good of the individual. The inability to understand this is the root of all that is wrong with most of the survivalist community in America today.

If you think you can survive on your own, in the face of opposing forces who outnumber you and will kill you for what they think you might have, more power to you. If you think you can band together with a bunch of other rugged individualists, each of you always putting your own interests first, and still expect them to help you out in your time of need, as part of some “mutually beneficial transaction,” more power to you…I hope you’re in Colorado or Washington so the shit you’re smoking doesn’t get you arrested before the SHTF…

I believe we are seeing a slide back into tribalism. In the long term, there will undoubtedly be a rise in the use of alliance based Things or other parliamentary bodies to mediate disputes. In the short term however, things will get—necessarily—ugly. While it was said that I shouldn’t compare Teutonic/Scandinavian tribes and bands to the Pashtun, I think it works just find. If we look at different tribal cultures from around the world, we see more parallels between them than we see differences. Whether you call it a Thing or a Shura, there will be a need for an over-reaching mediating body to settle disputes unless we want to find ourselves sucked into the vortex of blood feuds and revenge killings.

In order to get there though, as another commenter pointed out, you have to be able to negotiate from a position of strength. That is going to require being part of a clan/tribe/aett that you KNOW you can trust has the Frith of the clan foremost in their consideration, even above their own survival.

That’s not about self-sacrifice versus Objectivist self-centeredness. It’s about ensuring the survival of your genetic material through your offspring, by ensuring the tribe survives to protect them, even if you don’t survive.

But, I could be full of shit too.

My next post will address my hyper-aggressive, patriarchal, foul-mouthed personality.

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50 Comments
  1. RangerRick permalink

    Well said and written. I look forward to the rest of the story,
    RangerRick

    Be Prepared – Be Prayerful – Be Thankful – You are an American

  2. Disciple of Night permalink

    Marxists believe that paradise can be engineered on Earth. Hence, this illogical fallacy carries into all of the laws that are supposed to make us “safer.” Certain people who call themselves “liberty-minded,” are of the same mind at the other end of the spectrum. They believe only in the individual, forgetting that Jefferson’s Declaration specifically stated that government is instituted for the sole purpose of safeguarding our inalienable rights, including life.

    On a different note, the next post is going to be awesome!

  3. “Got Frith?” t-shirts available online in 3.. 2.. 1..

  4. Europeans preferred guild membership to family clans because of some quirks such as monogamy and non cousin marriage.
    Even in America 100 years ago some 85% of Americans belonged to fraternal organizations that acted as a form of welfare if one got sick.

    • cultcha tourista permalink

      Fraternals are still here. Go join your local Eagles, Elks, Moose, etc. and enquire about historical reason for existence. I think that the networks possible in fraternals, combined with the assets that some of them hold combined with their non-profit or not-for-profit less-taxed status make them important as The Clampdown proceeds.

      Most Fraternal organizations have a need for people under 50 year old RIGHT NOW. The old folks are still around to provide framework, but if you wait a decade, they will be gone and the building/property sold off (turned retain/condos).

  5. Dave permalink

    I spent a few years amongst the Asatru community and it always amazed me how willfully ignorant they were about the paralells between the ancestral way of life they advocated and the tribal structures we are in conflict with in the Third World.

    Whether people like it or not its coming to a Western Civilization near you, so you might as well understand the rules of the game.

    Those who genuinely understand how the real/third world (Tribalism) works will adapt while those most invested in the current system will suffer the consequences.

  6. Veritas permalink

    Blood feuds exist throughout Islam. Clans and tribes are part and parcel of the Arab world and I suspect Islam. Islam is not a religion in the way any other rleigion exists. It is more along the lines of the mafia, allowing control through various regions.

    • Dave permalink

      I think you are confusing Pre-Islamic cultures with Islamic Doctrine. Your argument is the equivalent of accusing Christianity of being responsible for the Mafia in Sicily. Blood Feuds and Tribal warfare are as old as mankind, regardless of the religion they exist under.

      The Pashtunwali predates the conversion of the Pashtun tribes to Islam by a long while.

      • Not at all. I think there is a misunderstanding…unless you’re talking about the commenter? That was my point, exactly. Tribalism exists within Islam, but is not part of Islam, because tribalism, by definition, is counter to the conceptual goal of the Global Caliphate.

      • Dave permalink

        Yes I was talking about the commenter. I agree that Tribalism runs entirely counter to any sort of Global Initiative.

  7. Lugh permalink

    I fuck little boys, just like my ancient Hellenic “white” ancestors did, because our culture is superior.

    • Millwright permalink

      Well said John! Good subject matter
      I like this blog
      And I knew the commentor with the remark about foul language would spark a reply

    • RobRoySimmons permalink

      “Anti-racism” is nothing but a codeword for anti-white,(nonsense. I’m as opposed to the Black Panthers and La Raza as I am the skinheads and neo-Nazis. You don’t get to put labels on my beliefs, just because they’re inconvenient for you–JM)

    • Mr Mosby, that was epic! Thank you.

    • rob permalink

      ‘Window-Licker’… nice. haven’t heard that one in a while…;-)

  8. Hearing the clock ticking louder and louder in the background, I believe this topic is quite timely and necessary.
    From your first blog article to today, it’s always a pleasure John….even if I get educated by the “dragged kicking and screaming” method.
    Prayers for you and yours my friend.

  9. Well done. Sins of omission appear to be the only lack of your posts, and they should be forgiven, being none of us blog full-time.

    You wrote in the previous post that a tribeman initiating a tribal war with a murder would be supported by his tribe. I find that unlikely. If the tribe takes priority over an individual, then the individual would be sacrificed by the tribe for the good of the tribe. That said, I’ve only dealt with Saudis, so you may know anecdotes that disprove my assertion.

    • That would make sense, but, loyalty to the clan as a whole means never demonstrating weakness to an enemy in a tribal society. If they turn over the malefactor to the enemy tribe, they’re basically saying, “Hey, we know we can’t beat you, so we’re going to try and appease you this way.” As the British learned under Chamberlain, appeasement is a lousy bargaining chip.

      The problem with the Saudis is they’re really no longer tribal in the sense we’re speaking of tribes. With the House of al-Saud ruling the entire peninsula, basically, and everyone in thrall to them, it’s a feudal society more than a tribal society. So, it’s become less what is the good of the tribe, and more what is the good for the al-Saud. At least that’s my non-anthro interpretation of it.

      • I’ve observed the same among the Saudis, although I’d venture to add that it’s more complicated that simple feudalism with a church hierarchy. As I once told an Englishman, “If you want to understand your client, you need to carefully read your Bible and assume you’re treating with Biblical Jews. In this regard, you are correct to identify Islam as a universal religion, but for the Saudis, it is also a national religion. Being raised Southern Baptist in Silicon Valley, it was easy to empathize with the Saudis while working with them in Scotland, and then in their homeland, I was reminded of my move to Texas later in life. Those men are guided by a religion in thrall to the house of Saud, but it is their religion to guard and keep, not the religion of the masses, and not the religion of al-Saud. The Saudis believe themselves no less chosen than the Jews, and comprehending that bunch of humans requires comprehending that above all else. Think “manifest destiny” from our history, and you might get close.

        Have you considered that although a short-term tribal phase may be accurate for post-SHTF, the next phase that follows may be a military and religious leadership? “Handmaid’s Tale” may be prophetic. I certainly wouldn’t put it beyond the depths to which some god and country politicians might dive for safety.

      • “Have you considered that although a short-term tribal phase may be accurate for post-SHTF, the next phase that follows may be a military and religious leadership? “Handmaid’s Tale” may be prophetic. I certainly wouldn’t put it beyond the depths to which some god and country politicians might dive for safety.”

        I think the Republic is too large a land-mass area to pull it off on a “national” scale. At local levels, absolutely. I BELIEVE what we’ll see arise out of the tribal morass will be different in different areas, and all of it will be different from what we’re used to now. Continued tribalism, and even a tribal parliament like the Althing in some areas might be possible/probable. In other areas, a particularly strong tribe might be able to set up a feudal system, in still others, you’ll see continued tribal fighting and chaos. I think the best fiction treatment I’ve seen of the idea, despite the “magic” elements and lack of functioning firearms, is S.M. Stirling’s Dies The Fire trilogy.

      • Dude! No more reading assignments! Just keeping pace with Moldbug and the prepper and survivalist material is too much for a guy like me who’s so embedded in urban life.😉

  10. Bill Harzia permalink

    I respectfully ask this with all seriousness: Would you be interested in a discussion of racial differences and tensions in modern America, and how they might affect a failure of civility? Or would you consider it a waste of time?

    • Honestly? I think it’s a waste of time. Not because skin color is not going to play a part, but because it’s going to turn into exactly what these idiots keep trying to turn a discussion of tribalism into…a discussion of pigmentation.

      When people define their “tribe” as the degree of pigmentation in their skin, rather than a relationship between themselves and others, the conversation is pointless.

      • Bill Harzia permalink

        Thank you for your reply. I always learn something here.

      • RobRoySimmons permalink

        I gotta hand it to you, the SPLC could use you, whites are nothing but a “pigmentation”, who the fuck knew.

        I really don’t care what you think up there about race in pigmented Idaho living with the bears and wolves as you do, but your cribbing the anti-racist sheet and calling it scholarship is weak shit and silly. On the other hand much of your scholarship is going to be useful in dealing with the post social engineering American land mass in the festivities ahead.

        Like I said I sympathize with the fact you would never want to synthesize a blog between the topics of race and guns, if your white, that is a big no no.

        (I’m going to let this one stand dude, despite the nonsense, in recognition of your previous contributions to discussions here. We’re done with the “white is right” horseshit, and that I’m somehow “anti-white” because I believe the Neo-Nazis, Black Panthers, and La Raza share the same moral ground.–JM)

  11. I would agree that S.M. Stirling’s Dies the Fire is a good outline of post SHTF events. I would further posit that Tribalism works best in societies that have limited transportation.

    I remember talks with my Grand Dad with how things worked around 1900 and it was a lot more of helping your neighbor, whom you have lived next to for decades.

    If our transportation is stopped, for any reason, we will be in some kind of a pickle very quickly.

    I would anticipate we will see a slow economic kind of decline over the quick one we would see from infrastructure failure, but I too do not see many good ways forward. And even the economic one could end hard as we, as a society, are too much into the me.

    I also am of the opinion that being the lone survivor is a fast way to an unmarked grave. If you have no friends in this world, you should not expect to have any in the next. (not talking about after death here, either)

    You, Mosby, might be a knuckle dragging Neanderthal, but I think you write good.

  12. (Following the links function on the WordPress software, I found your invitation to your cock-gobbling brethren to invade my house. Better pick a new name to post under princess, because you’re no longer welcome here. –JM)

    • The Infamous Oregon Lawhobbit permalink

      I believe that a closer reading of our host’s work would indicate to someone who’s not intellectually challenged that that’s not what he said in the slightest – that ANY racism is stupid. The strawman argument you present there is … well, let’s be frank, “sadly pathetic.”

      How someone can be proud – or not proud – of color is beyond me (but I’m one of those ancaps our host mocks on occasion). Basing self esteem on skin color is, to me, like basing it on having a cute spleen….

      As a Buddy Of Color of mine put it – “So you’re part of the Master Race? Tell me, what have *you* mastered?” Racism (regardless of color) is simply another cover for psychological insecurity over a lack of personal accomplishment. “I am a total utter complete loser – but at least I’m not _______ colored.” Yeah. There’s thoughtful.

      Personally insecure much? 😀

    • It’s not about the Blank Slate theory at all. I’m just insisting that you guys be intellectually honest. There is no “white” culture, anymore than there is an “Asian/Yellow” culture.

      There is certainly Teutonic culture. There is Hellenic culture. There is Celtic culture. This certainly matters. We know that large parts of our “American” culture are derived from Teutonic, Celtic, and Hellenic culture. Othr These are cultures. White…like yellow, black, and brown, are colors.

  13. The Infamous Oregon Lawhobbit permalink

    How can you help but love a blog where the host has no compunctions about starting a response off with, “Alright, fucktard…” 😀

    On to substance:

    “In a tribal society, the tribe does come first, because the good of the tribe ensures the good of the individual.”

    This, in a nicely phrased nutshell, is where many of my fellow libertarians get it wrong – as well as many statists. Individual and group are a symbiosis, neither existing very well without the other. I have decent woods skills, but even presuming I could go into the forest buck naked and survive … those skills came from the experiences of other people and groups. Learning them on my own would be prohibitively expensive (i.e. “fatal”), and many of those skills – or what NOT to do things – were learned exactly that way by others and passed on by the survivors. Likewise, a tribe that thinks (well, the chiefs – the tribe itself has no brain) and acts without any concern for the good of the members will also learn some prohibitively expensive lessons. If it survives the learning process, it may well develop new strategies that are more “continued-existence-amenable,” shall we say.

    And, as an aside to our host, the “do you have a degree” is just a form of the logical fallacy of “appeal to authority.” A person with a degree may well have more training and better insights on a topic … but the degree, in and of itself with no further proof, is not much evidence. In short: Prove it. Feel free to add “fucktard” if appropriate. 😉

    • Oh, I agree with you on the degree thing. I’ve used my degrees exactly zero times professionally. I just throw that out there to squash any concerns from the readership popping up about, “WTF? John thinks he’s an anthropologist now?”

      • Joe permalink

        I always thought SF guys were anthropologists with guns.

      • Meh…We’re supposed to be. Idealism and reality sometimes take a swift kick in the nuts in Pineland, in my experience.

  14. Some Guy in OR permalink

    In a classic interview, one of the founders and long-time Prime Minister of Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew, described why Singapore relies upon the family unit as the core of all of their social policies.

    “History in China is of dynasties which have risen and fallen, of the waxing and waning of societies. And through all that turbulence, the family, the extended family, the clan, has provided a kind of survival raft for the individual. Civilizations have collapsed, dynasties have been swept away by conquering hordes, but this life raft enables the civilization to carry on and get to its next phase.

    “…. the family and the way human relationships are structured do increase the survival chances of its members. That has been tested over thousands of years in many different situations.”

    http://paulbacon.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/zakaria_lee.pdf

  15. the fukkn A-team permalink

    So many morons out there. I’m Spic, Wop, Injun, and Kraut. By looking at me you would think I’m white. That’s because of my skin color. Fuck all you white assholes. The US Government has been run by whites forever and look where they put us. Most of the “whites” I’ve known all worked for me- a Spic. LOL. While I’m enjoying my early retirement, the master race “whites” are quickly becoming broke and homeless. Look in the mirror and tell yourself you’re better than me. YOU CAN’T! JM is right in calling you “fucktards”.

  16. “Got fucktards?” tshirts in 3.. 2.. 1..

  17. In the words of Rodney King, “Can’t we all just get along?”.

    • Millwright permalink

      Genetically impossible it would seem, we are all competing for an ever decreasing pool of natural resources. Pick out the difference that you want, black, white, tall, short, bad DNA, alcohol abuser,
      discharge them from the group, take their stuff, kill them if you have to. That is where this is all heading.

  18. WildBillB permalink

    similar tribalisms are in the US, and i expect as things break down we will see these tribes rise in prominence – community-wise and in the lives of the individuals. Think Amish/Mennonite groups now. The meetinghouse is the secondary center of the tribe, with Family coming first.

    This is how America always has been, esp during the Great Depression. Individuals sought and gained help via the extended family (and family farm). Most don’t have that now, so some other religious or social circle will take that place.

    The other great American tribal system? Urban gangs. they function and operate in all ways as a tribe. And look at their prominence and rise these last 30 years, as family breaks down.

    Some US tribes exist with their independant Education System(s), member support (welfare) systems, and judiciary (and executive) structures. They actively use and refine local and regional communication systems (even national). Their members are formally and informally training themselves on self-sufficiency, community-sufficiency, and independance. Youth training (ie Boy Scouts, etc) is central. The good news is that the most prominent of these are moral, with strong beliefs in God and Christ, and actively working to ensure Constitutional rights for themselves and their community.

    These groups, as they are large enough, will provide the defense and self-sustaining that will draw in non-tribal members (of any race i’d add) and will build in size and scope to ensure safe-havens.

    • Wombat permalink

      While plenty of people are shitscared of MS13 and the like being a dominating force after the SHTF they will only be a temporary problem. They exist because society has grown large enough for them to feed from the avarice of millions of people.
      When the time comes that people are more concerned with finding their next meal rather than shoving drugs in their veins the cartels will have to start growing corn instead of dope and learning how to reproduce rather than murder.
      Even if they set up despotic regimes around their power bases it will by necessity be in agricultural districts so unless you hold fertile ground near Mexico they’ll be the least of your concerns.

  19. Wombat permalink

    Thirsty work knocking back an army of dickheads who are desperate to equate race with tribe. Oh well. I imagine most of them have no friends and are hoping that a snap back to “racial reality” will see them swimming in blood brothers eager to tell them how awesome they are for being pale. Of course, after a crash even if all the blacks, asians and other assorted races died out on day one there still wouldn’t be enough food being produced for the whites to survive without eating each other -anyway- so their plans of “racial solidarity” are destined to become the punch-line to a cannibal’s joke.

    However, in a desperate attempt to get back to the point of the article, I think a lot of the “rugged individualists” afraid that tribalism is just another form of tyranny are missing the fact that when you know everyone in your tribe then (a) you tend to avoid treating them like slaves, and (b) find that genuine justice is necessary for your tiny “government” to survive.

    The problems begin when you’re being taxed and policed by people who don’t know you from a bar of soap and frankly don’t give a shit if you die in a gutter.

    • Wombat permalink

      Got tribe, Gwain? I ask because people who go on and on and on about racial and cultural identity are typically people with no tribe who are desperate to create a system where entry to social circles is guaranteed by anything OTHER than their merits, which are usually sadly lacking.

      People with tribe rarely bother to discuss the matter, just as athletes rarely discuss sports with armchair quarterbacks. Me? I’ve got fuck all tribe for plenty of good reasons, but I’m sure as hell not going to start bitching that my peers are idiots for failing to dump their dark buddies in favour of my lily white ass.

      And while we’re here, hows about you tell us all what the fuck it is you’re actually agitating for? You want everyone to get on the white power bandwagon? You’re a little butthurt because you thought it was an easy sell and you were told to get lost? What is it you actually want?

      By this stage it’s starting to look like you’re sitting at a DHS server purposely trying to stain the good name of these folks with your sad bullshit.

  20. Homefront Defense permalink

    Mosby, you’re 100% fucking right, and I believe the same as well.

  21. Mike permalink

    This has been an interesting series of posts. I’ve often wondered how things would shake out if (when?) our present system collapses. Tribal groups are certainly a strong possibility, or should I say probability.

    • The Infamous Oregon Lawhobbit permalink

      People are going to band together for mutual security.* Some of those bands may coalesce into full on tribes. Others may remain loosely affiliated bands. I don’t share our host’s view that a tribal world is going to +necessarily+ be as Hobbesian as he seems to depict – not saying it won’t – just having some doubts.

      *or to prey on others more blatantly, fear of consequences having been substantially reduced.

  22. we should bear in mind when deciding who will be responsible for the new civilization, it was the MBA’s who got us in this condition in the first place, you really want them to be responsible for the next one? just sayin. the best choice is the ones with common sense, you know, the one who doesn’t freak when a child eats his pop tarts into the shape of a gun…..

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  1. Mosby: Welcome To The Horde, Part III | Western Rifle Shooters Association

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